Thursday is theory day now.
This is the fourth article of the series. Since there are a lot of theories floating out there and I'm asked often enough what I think of them, I thought I write it down. You can then laugh about me when I am totally proven wrong by "The Winds of Winter" or something like that. Rules are as follows: you put a question about any theory or plot element (really, let's stress "theory" a bit for the sake of interesting questions) either in the comments of any theory post or by mail (stefan_sasse@gmx.de) and I will answer them in an upcoming post. And if you now ask "Stefan, isn't this a shameless rip-off of Sean T. Collin's "Ask me anything"?", I would tell you to shut up, because you are right.
This is the fourth article of the series. Since there are a lot of theories floating out there and I'm asked often enough what I think of them, I thought I write it down. You can then laugh about me when I am totally proven wrong by "The Winds of Winter" or something like that. Rules are as follows: you put a question about any theory or plot element (really, let's stress "theory" a bit for the sake of interesting questions) either in the comments of any theory post or by mail (stefan_sasse@gmx.de) and I will answer them in an upcoming post. And if you now ask "Stefan, isn't this a shameless rip-off of Sean T. Collin's "Ask me anything"?", I would tell you to shut up, because you are right.
Prepare for part 4. Spoilers for "A Song of Ice and Fire", obviously.
- Who is Azor Ahai?
Jon. That said, it might very well be that the dragon has three heads and that The Prince Who was Promised is someone else entirely. My best guess is that Dany, Jon and Tyrion will all play their roles in the things to come, and given the recent revelations, they all three would have Targaryen blood in their veines (not sure whether I like that, though). I'm not judging Jon's being Azor Ahai from the possible fullfillment of the prophecy with the smoke and salt tears of his death, but just on guts feeling. It certainly feels right. He is the one character that always qualified the most for being a "hero", and he constantly developed in that direction. When he comes back (not if, mind you), he will be changed, that's for sure. I'd guess he sees his job more in direct facing the Others, which would be in line with him being the big hero guy Azor Ahai.
- What effect does having a High Septon elected from the devout, by the devout, and for the devout have on Westeros? This man is cruel and embraces all the worst of our world's Inquisition, but the fact that he has peasants standing up to the Queen and enforces a punishment of Cersei that ruins all her political credibility has meaning, imo. The people of KL have now seen that nobles aren't that different from themselves, and that's a dangerous conclusion that the nobles should be worried about.
This question is a direct rip-off from Sean's, but I like it very much. So, the Faith is certainy not about upturning the social order of Westeros. They destroy Cersei Lannister, but the reason for that is two-fold: the High Septon wants to firmly put women back in their place, being openly misogynistic, and Kevan wants to control the access to power. None of this has anything to do with a general upheaval. The goal of the Faith under the new High Septon is to divide the power in the realm between the mundane and the clerical sphere. Until now, the Faith has been a mere tool of power, the High Septons appointed by the politicans at a whim. The Faith wants to get to the condition that church and Kaiser were back in the middle ages: a constant struggle for power, with the Faith being able to call in a force of their own. Cersei allowed them that. The High Septon, obviously a sharp egg, immediately took the chance. But the Faith relies on the social order. They certainly won't turn on the nobility as a whole.
- Is Aegon a real Targaryen?
No. In fact, there's a brillant essay about this topic in "A Flight of Sorrows", so go check it out. The argument is as follows: there never was a switchereedo. Baby Aegon died at the hands of Gregor Clegane. Instead, the "Aegon" Tyrion meets is in truth Illyrio's son. Illyrio's wife certainly had the looks of a Targaryen, much like Aurane Waters, for example, and people see what they want to see. If "Aegon's" eyes are purple or blue can hardly be determined, could go either way. And putting him on the throne to secure a golden future for his own would finally give a credible motive for Illyrio. It would also explain why he sends Viserys and Daenerys to their presumed deaths: he doesn't give a rat's ass about Targaryens, and Varys doesn't, either. The existence of Dany and her dragons threatens to unravel all plans, so if she ever crosses the Narrow Sea, she needs to be married to Aegon in order for this ploy to work. But really, check out the essay in "A Flight of Sorrows".
- Who is Azor Ahai?
Jon. That said, it might very well be that the dragon has three heads and that The Prince Who was Promised is someone else entirely. My best guess is that Dany, Jon and Tyrion will all play their roles in the things to come, and given the recent revelations, they all three would have Targaryen blood in their veines (not sure whether I like that, though). I'm not judging Jon's being Azor Ahai from the possible fullfillment of the prophecy with the smoke and salt tears of his death, but just on guts feeling. It certainly feels right. He is the one character that always qualified the most for being a "hero", and he constantly developed in that direction. When he comes back (not if, mind you), he will be changed, that's for sure. I'd guess he sees his job more in direct facing the Others, which would be in line with him being the big hero guy Azor Ahai.
- What effect does having a High Septon elected from the devout, by the devout, and for the devout have on Westeros? This man is cruel and embraces all the worst of our world's Inquisition, but the fact that he has peasants standing up to the Queen and enforces a punishment of Cersei that ruins all her political credibility has meaning, imo. The people of KL have now seen that nobles aren't that different from themselves, and that's a dangerous conclusion that the nobles should be worried about.
This question is a direct rip-off from Sean's, but I like it very much. So, the Faith is certainy not about upturning the social order of Westeros. They destroy Cersei Lannister, but the reason for that is two-fold: the High Septon wants to firmly put women back in their place, being openly misogynistic, and Kevan wants to control the access to power. None of this has anything to do with a general upheaval. The goal of the Faith under the new High Septon is to divide the power in the realm between the mundane and the clerical sphere. Until now, the Faith has been a mere tool of power, the High Septons appointed by the politicans at a whim. The Faith wants to get to the condition that church and Kaiser were back in the middle ages: a constant struggle for power, with the Faith being able to call in a force of their own. Cersei allowed them that. The High Septon, obviously a sharp egg, immediately took the chance. But the Faith relies on the social order. They certainly won't turn on the nobility as a whole.
- Is Aegon a real Targaryen?
No. In fact, there's a brillant essay about this topic in "A Flight of Sorrows", so go check it out. The argument is as follows: there never was a switchereedo. Baby Aegon died at the hands of Gregor Clegane. Instead, the "Aegon" Tyrion meets is in truth Illyrio's son. Illyrio's wife certainly had the looks of a Targaryen, much like Aurane Waters, for example, and people see what they want to see. If "Aegon's" eyes are purple or blue can hardly be determined, could go either way. And putting him on the throne to secure a golden future for his own would finally give a credible motive for Illyrio. It would also explain why he sends Viserys and Daenerys to their presumed deaths: he doesn't give a rat's ass about Targaryens, and Varys doesn't, either. The existence of Dany and her dragons threatens to unravel all plans, so if she ever crosses the Narrow Sea, she needs to be married to Aegon in order for this ploy to work. But really, check out the essay in "A Flight of Sorrows".
Give the High Septon some credit in his fight with Cersei, she straight up had his predecessor murdered. Her walk of shame was the only culturally approved punishment he can so far meet out that would destroy her as a ruler, and lets face it, she allowed VIVISECTION.
ReplyDeleteYes, but these are the triggers, not the cause. After all, they don't intend to walk Kettleblack with his dingledong swinging through the streets. Sexual humiliation is for women only. Of course Cersei wasn't exactly innocent. But I want to remind you, the trial is yet to come. The High Septon didn't punish her for her crimes - this is yet in store - but he destroyed her only for the boon of allowing her back to the castle. Seen in that light, I stand with my prior assessment of the situation.
DeleteThey straight up killed Kettleback, did he even have a dingledong left by the time they finished with him? Call me crazy but in the order of magnitude of punishments, Cersei got off light so far compared to Kettleback.
DeleteThe Walk of Shame was a way to release Cersei, thus avoiding having blood spilt in the city, and still remove her from power. He had a chance to essentially depose Cersei and he took it, you can't wager something like that on a trial, especially one in which the accused has the right to trial by combat.
Dunno what you guys are thinking but compared to the torture that Kettleback got I'd take the old dong-swinging walk through the streets any day. If there is a double standard one could argue it favored Cercei.
DeleteThey did kill him? Totally missed that. Time that I advanced my reread. Anyway, my point was not that they didn't treat Kettleblack brutally - of course they did - but that they didn't try to destroy his gender persona. I don't think they would do that to a man.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Aegon is not a Targaryen. But could he be a Blackfyre ? Why are the Blackfyres mentioned so often in ASOIAF ? It would be pointless if none of the main characters have some Blackfyre blood in them...
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I don't remember any dead Kettleback..tortured, yes, but not dead...
1. Hate the idea of Tyrion being a Targ because it undermines the drama of his relationship w/his father and still doesn't fit the prophecy since he's not of the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Tyrion may be the third head because there really isn't an ideal third candidate.
ReplyDelete2. Definitely agree on "Aegon" being Illyrio's son with his Lyseni possibly Blackfyre wife.
3. I hate they high septon in part for being awful enough to make me feel sympathy for Cersei. He oozes with hatred for women, in a sane world he would be unbelievable character but is all too familiar.
If Cersei threatened to tell the world Robert did not father Tommen unless all charges were dropped do you think he would have called her bluff?
There is one thing that doesn't make sense about the Ilyrio wants Viserys and Daenerys dead theory......why make it so complicated. He had the opportunity to kill them at any point when they lived at his home. He could have had Varys broker a deal in Westeros for them if he wanted financial gain. Maybe I missed something in the text but why is this not mentioned whenever this theory comes up.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't want to kill them, he wants them around as an distraction so no one learns about Aegon. As long as Viserys and Dany run around bribing horselords, no one pays attention to a certain poleboat on the Rhoyne.
DeleteJon is Azor Azai, the proof for this is his dream of him fighting off the Others as they attack the Wall with his sword burning red in his hand, just like Lightbringer
ReplyDelete