Supreme Court of Westeros, ruling 132

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Welcome to the Supreme Court of Westeros! Every week, three pressing questions from the community will be answered by the esteemed judges Stefan (from your very own Nerdstream Era) and Amin (from A Podcast of Ice and Fire). The rules are simple: we take three questions, and one of us writes a measured analysis. The other one writes a shorter opinion, either concurring or dissenting. The catch is that every week a third judge from the fandom will join us and also write a dissenting or concurring opinion. So if you think you're up to the task - write us an email to stefan_sasse@gmx.de, leave a comment in the post, ask in the APOIAF-forum or contact Amin at his tumblr. Discussion is by no means limited to the court itself, though - feel free to discuss our rulings in the commentary section and ask your own questions through the channels above.

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And now, up to ruling 132! Our guest judge this week is Fredrik Fisher, a member of the community.

Given that a female Other once ruled about the Watch, it seems like they can get through the Wall. What implications does this have for the narrative?

Main Opinion: Stefan

I don’t think it has that many implications. The Night-King-story is basically a legend, one of many of Old Nan’s stories, and it betrays elements of long established tropes: on the one hand, there’s the succubus, winning the soul of man by seducing him, and on the other hand, you have the vampire element, where you need to essentially invite evil to come in because it cannot cross the threshold without your express invitation. That seems what the story’s implicating: that if the Watch allows someone to pass, they can pass, somehow. Since I’m pretty convinced that the Wall will come down, big time, by blowing the horn of Joramun, I don’t see much room for a new version of the evil Other seductress.

Concurring in Part, Dissenting in Part: Amin

I don’t quite agree with the points about the Night King, as I think it more than legend and has some basis in history. However, I agree that if the Others are somehow welcomed through, then they can get through the Wall. It’s possible they can even physically get around the wall as it is, we have no way to know for sure, but it seems like their range of magic, including raising the dead, is blocked by the Wall.

Concurring opinion: Frederik Fisher

None whatsoever. As to Justice Stefan’s opinions, I haven’t much to add here besides the fact that I don’t think that the story is in any relevant way pertinent to the Night’s Watch or the Others at all. It’s your classic stick-with-your-own-kind story, which are rather obvious parts of the Northern cultural heritage, given, for instance, Northern racism towards the Wildlings over the years. 

Final Verdict: No implications. 

Note: This verdict was written before "Game of Thrones" Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" aired, which sheds some new light on the question. 

Also, I know Stefan is a big fan of Poor Quentyn (I am as well), but what theories of his does each judge disagree with?

Main Opinion: Stefan

Funny enough, I can’t really name anything. So far, everything he put forth has made sense to me. I guess our biggest disagreement is the identity of the Harpy, which for me isn’t the Green Grace because I still give more weight to Adam Feldman in that matter. But PoorQuentyn’s points are pretty convincing here as well, so I might be wrong.

Concurring in Part, Dissenting in Part: Amin

I am not sure about the Green Grace being the Harpy. I think she did have strong enough influence on the city to stop the violence given her position, but that doesn’t mean she was the one initiating and organizing the vioelcne. However, I am open to persuasion on that point. I do think it is possible to distinguish the Green Grace from the person who set up the assassination attempt on Dany’s life with the poisoned locusts. The latter would be the Shavepate, as he was left in a bad position by the marriage and would benefit from Dany becoming a martyr and being in the set up position to avenge her dead.

Concurring in part, dissenting in part: Federik Fisher

I enjoy reading PQ’s extensive theories, especially for their cohesion and completeness. I tend to agree with him mostly, although, for instance, his theories for Jon’s arc post Hard Home seem a bit much to me. For my part, I’d think Jon’s mind would be rather more focused on the fact that he’s been brought back to life and the implications thereof than on R+L=J. Yes, the latter surely will be important to him on a very personal level, but wouldn’t having experienced death, either for the first time realizing you’re a warg in the process or simply being dead, trump whatever reasons there might have been for putting him on this Planetos in the first place? I can see both these personal crises merging, of course, but I find it hard to believe that Jon’s parentage and the implications thereof would sway him enough to almost bring him to the bringk of giving up. Rather, with Jon being a resurrected corpse, the question tormenting him might be what really separates him from a wight. That might be something to chew on.

Final Verdict: The identity of the Harpy and Jon's future arc remain a bit matters of dispute. 

To what extent, if any, is Martin guilty of orientalism in ASOIAF?

Main Opinion: Stefan

Quite a bit. While he certainly tries to avoid the most overt clichés in describing Essos, the deliberate lack of Essosi POV characters and the rather small part of the narrative spent there necessitate some abbreviations, and clichés about the strange and fascinating east play a big role here. I think Slaver’s Bay is getting the shortest end of the stick here, along with the Dothraki.

Dissenting Opinion: Amin

I think orientalism is present in the work, as it is very difficult for any fantasy writer escape the legacy of orientalism. However, Martin has done his best to avoid it and I don’t think choosing to focus on Westeros is truly a form of orientalism. I think the World of Ice and Fire shows that Martin knows there is a lot of things going on in his world, and in terms of politics, Westeros isn’t that important at all. Even in terms of the supernatural battles, there were battles going on all over the East during the Long Night at the same time Westeros had its struggles. So Martin acknowledges the width of the world while focusing on writing about what he knows best in the main series, Westeros, which is based mainly on his extensive knowledge of medieval European history and culture. It is difficult for a person to write to right well about what he does not know about. Martin’s expertise is in the European tradition of writing, not Asian. He has read many European works and travelled to European historic sites; while he has read some Asian works, the number is far lower and he has not had the opportunity to travel around most of Asia. He gave Essos a large role in A Dance with Dragons, but his focus is ultimately on Westeros. Instead of doing a mediocre job of trying to balance the entire story between the two continents, he focuses and writes on what he knows best, the setting for Westeros.

Concurring opinion: Frederik Fisher

There’s orientalism in abundance if one wants to see it. It is easily explained by the fact that this story is about Westeros and therefore,necessarily, puts Essos in the back seat. This, of course, doesn’t excuse the exoticism, although Martin at numerous times goes out of his way to address those issues.

Final Verdict: There's much of it, but that doesn't mean the quality of the story suffers.