Thursday, April 14, 2016

Supreme Court of Westeros, ruling 125

Thursday is court day!
Welcome to the Supreme Court of Westeros! Every week, three pressing questions from the community will be answered by the esteemed judges Stefan (from your very own Nerdstream Era) and Amin (from A Podcast of Ice and Fire). The rules are simple: we take three questions, and one of us writes a measured analysis. The other one writes a shorter opinion, either concurring or dissenting. The catch is that every week a third judge from the fandom will join us and also write a dissenting or concurring opinion. So if you think you're up to the task - write us an email to, leave a comment in the post, ask in the APOIAF-forum or contact Amin at his tumblr. Discussion is by no means limited to the court itself, though - feel free to discuss our rulings in the commentary section and ask your own questions through the channels above.
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And now, up to ruling 125! Our guest judge this week is Tyler Kendall, previous judge and member of the community.

Why does Jaime seem to take no pride in being the sire of the new Westerosi dynasty? He's certainly prideful about pretty much everything else. Not knowing of the dire fate awaiting the Seven Kingdoms, one would think you might revel in the knowledge that all future kings will be your descendants.

Main Opinion: Stefan
Why doesn’t Arya take any pride in courtly manners and stitching? Because it’s not her, because she has no interest in it. It’s the same thing with Jaime. He’s prideful about his martial abilities, and carrying the Lannister name. He’s not at all interested in the family legacy. Jaime would have been an extraordinary second son. Had he been born after Tyrion, he would have been his Kevan, and the two of them could have simply outlasted Tywin. But he was shoe-horned into a role he didn’t want, and his look and abilities were mistaken for qualification by an incredibly violent and patriarchal society. He rebelled against this by taking the white mantle, but even that didn’t sway his father. How much more plainly can you state “I don’t want to be heir of Casterly Rock” than to wave off the chance to get out of the kingsguard? Jaime doesn’t want family. He wants comrades.

Concurring Opinion: Amin
Jaime did not care much about his kids one way or another until recently. He cares even less about his future descendants. Jaime’s focus on his legacy was on his actions (whether honourable or despicable), not his biological children.

Concurring in part, dissenting in part: Tyler Kendall
Like Stefan I feel that Jaime takes no pride because he doesn't have any attachment to the children. However, that isn't to say that this was always the case: I feel Jaime made a conscious decision to not allow himself to form attachment to the children. There certainly seemed to be some attachment initially, Cersei tells Sansa of Jaime's instance on being in the birthing room for Joff's birth, but Jaime is a lot of things but stupid isn't one of them. He knew that he had to detach himself emotionally from his own children and he seems to have done that.

Final Verdict: Jaime isn't interested in building a dynasty. 

Is there a threat of fire like the Others are a threat of Ice? I mean we have several accounts of "epic battle". But do all those accounts actually describe the exact same event (long night)? Are Harkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, the last Hero, tPtwP all the same "force" (doesn't matter if it's one ore more individuals, dragons etc.) fighting the exact same enemy OR have different enemies attacked at different places / from different sides of the world (#FiveForts) either at the same time, or at different times (maybe even periodically [summer/winter])?

Main Opinion: Stefan
I don’t think we have a magical opponent in the waiting that is a servant of fire. The followers of R’hollor and, of course, Dany come closest to this, and for the people of King’s Landing at least, she will pretty much be a fiery Other coming to kill them all. The enemy of life is death, and death is personified by Ice, while life is personified by fire.

Concurring in part, dissenting in part: Amin
The followers of R’hollor, Dany, and the dragons are all on the side of fire and of life. However, there is an argument that Melisandre and potentially some other R’hollor priests could be undead of another type. We’ve already seen Beric raise people from the dead. Melisandre is older than she looks and she is glamoured to cover that. She is likely alive with a life extended by supernatural means, rather than undead, but the distinction between the two points may be minor.

Concurring Opinion: Tyler Kendall
I don't think so. George doesn't seem like he is building to a simplistic "hot versus cold" climax to the series where two opposing magical forces duke it out. ASOIAF is really driven by the characters, not supernatural forces, and it is the characters will be the ones who defeat The Others. 

Final Verdict: There is no "Heart of Summer" somewhere to be found and fought.

Will Jon and Dany become a couple?

Main Opinion: Stefan
No, they won’t. At least not in the traditional sense of them getting together for an extended amount of time, forming a relationship and even marrying. I simply don’t think there will be the time for it. I wouldn’t rule out a short, fiery sexual encounter, but I’m not sure whether any one of them will be in the mood for such things when they meet. After all, at that point, both will mainly have to grapple with the fate as messiahs that has been thrust on them, so they have more existential things to worry about, and none of them is likely to survive the final battle against the Others at the Heart of Winter.

Concurring Opinion: Amin
Not a long term relationship. Even a short fling would be difficult to setup in a believable away, but seems like that will happen from setup with Dany’s prophecies.

Concurring Opinion: Tyler Kendall
No. Logistically, will there be enough time to set up such a romance in a compelling way? There are two books left and Dany has yet to leave Essos and the last time we saw Jon he appeared to be dead. Both characters have a lot to do before they are even ready to face The Others, let alone establish a believable romance. I've never understood the fandom's preoccupation with this pairing. 

Final Verdict: No, they won't. 


  1. Could you explain what "The Heart of Winter is"? How does three dragons riding into the heart of winter improve their odds of victory than say one or two dragons?
    We've only been introduced or heard of the land of always winter right?

    1. From A Game of Thrones: "North and north and north he [Bran] looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned his cheeks."