Thursday is court day!
Welcome to the Supreme Court of Westeros! Every week, three pressing
questions from the community will be answered by the esteemed judges
Stefan (from your very own Nerdstream Era) and Amin (from A Podcast of
Ice and Fire). The rules are simple: we take three questions, and one of
us writes a measured analysis. The other one writes a shorter opinion,
either concurring or dissenting. The catch is that every week a third
judge from the fandom will join us and also write a dissenting or
concurring opinion. So if you think you're up to the task - write us an
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What if Ramsay never killed Domeric Bolton?
Main Opinion: Amin
That could be a potentially big impact on the North. Roose may still be inclined to betray Robb, but it was a lot easier with Ramsay taking out Winterfell. I assuming Ramsay is unable to get the influence he has on the Bolton garrison, so that Rodrick is able to retake Winterfell from the Ironborn, leaving Robb in a stronger position. With Domeric around, if he is as decent as he seems, perhaps Roose pushes for a marriage alliance that keeps him closer with the Starks. Or if we somehow end up in the ADWD situation with Roose in charge of the North, Domeric does a far better job at keeping fake Sansa and the Stark supporters content.
Concurring Opinion: Stefan
There are even more butterfly effects at work. Without Ramsay, the whole Hornwood inheritance thing never blows up the way it does OTL, which means that the Manderlys are not in a Cold War situation with the Boltons, instead available to help out when needed - as are the Hornwood forces. All of this eases the burden on Winterfell when the Ironborn attack, potentially allowing more troops to be at hand and therefore alieviating the perceived need of Rodrik to take the Winterfell garrison to Torrhen’s Square.
Concurring Opinion: James Keene
Roose's betrayal of Robb Stark had nothing to do with his heir and everything to do with his desire for Bolton advancement. Without Ramsay's presence in The North it is possible Rodrik retakes Winterfell, which does enhance Robb's position. However, I believe Roose would find any way possible to improve his standing in The North, regardless of whether Domeric is alive or not. Roose's rise is purely a case of dues ex machina, on George R.R. Martin's part. Then again, there is no guarantee Domeric rides with Roose south. If Domeric remains in The Dreadfort, I doubt the original timeline changes at all.
Final Verdict: There would be a lot less pain for many people.
I have read that Aerys II knew of Rhaegar's intention of taking his throne, and did his best to thwart him by attending the tourney at Harrenhal. If this was the case, why did he not let Brandon fight his untrustworthy son in a trial-by-combat? This would have ensured Northern loyalty if Brandon had won and rid him of a rival for the throne.
Main Opion: Amin
Aerys was mad, he was not in a position to logically think things through. Also, Brandon’s challenge of Rhaegar was seen as a challenge of Aerys and the Targaryens in general. It would not do to be seen tolerating it, whether or not he might he have benefitted from it in some fashion. Aerys went far overboard the other way in executing the Starks, and Rhaegar was nowhere to be found in any case.
Concurring Opinion: Stefan
Aerys allowing Brandon to kill Rhaegar would have been devestating to royal power. If the king can’t protect even his own son, turning him over to some guy yelling at the gates, how can the dynasty be secure? Brandon attacked Targaryen power, not only Rhaegar. And, as Justice Amin pointed out, the man was stashing wildfire below King’s Landing, so rational thought might not be such a strong factor here.
Dissenting Opinion: James Keene
This is an interesting point. Had Aerys been in a more logical mood he may have forced Rhaegar to face Brandon's accusations, which may have resulted in a better outcome for all involved. Rickard Stark and Robert Baratheon certainly were not pleased with Lyanna disappearing, and if Aerys had managed to resolve the crisis without killing the heir of a Lord Paramount, perhaps Robert's Rebellion could have been avoided. The question then becomes: what would have happened if Rhaegar won? Would Robert's Rebellion still occur, and would Rickard Stark still perish at Aerys hand? I would predict Robert and Eddard would rebel in Rhaegar won his case before the throne, with unpredictable consequences among the nobility's perception of the rebellion.
Final Verdict: You can't throw your own heir under the bus publicly.
What I always didn't catch: What are the qualifications for Jaimie as Hand of the King? He wasn't member of the Small Council, he wasn't even very interested in (court) politics. Was Robert really thinking to appoint him or was it just a way to extort Ned?
Main Opinion: Amin
One does not need to be on the Small Council for or to be qualifed to be Hand. There have been many incompetent people in that position, appointed for blood, connections, faith, and other reasons. Robert was thinking to annoy Ned, and Jaime would have the backing of the Lannisters, which Robert needed, particularly if Ned wasn’t going to stay in the position.
Concurring Opinion: Stefan
It’s precisely Jaime’s lack of any qualification and his closeness to Cersei that make him so attractive to the latter and so repellent to Ned, a fact that both Ned and Robert well know.
Concurring Opinion: James Keene
There are no qualifications for any court position. Feudalism is not Democracy. This is actually one of Robert's more canny moves. Jaime is an unacceptable option for Ned as Hand of the King, and forces Robert's friend to remain in power, as Robert wants. The more interesting question is: would Jaime accept if offered the position? Further, would Cersei and Tywin assassinate Robert with a Lannister as Hand of the King?
Final Verdict: No qualifications other than being a Lannister and Cercei's lover.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteWouldn't Domeric have been with Robb like all of the other son's of his banner men? Roose is far less likely to betray Robb if his son is with him.
No, most likely he would either have sent Domeric and stayed at the Dreadfort himself, or vice versa. With only one heir, you don't put all eggs in one basket.
DeleteWell, there'd be somewhat of a parallel with Halys Hornwood, who also had a bastard son and brought his only trueborn son to war, but Roose is too cautious to do that.
DeleteThere's also the chance Domeric is in the Vale When the Northern banners are called. He would probably sail back to the north with Caitlyn and the Blackfish. You could probably imagine that the Blackfish would want to use the promising knight he might be familiar with as a scout, especially if he is a really good rider having grown up in Barrowton. He also may have some support of some Redforts or other friendly Valemen. This would in the thick with Robb during the campaign, I doubt Roose would send him back to the Dreadfort especially if Domeric would be another ear in Robb's inner circle on the Western front.
DeleteThough this may not prevent Ramsay from being somewhat in power up at the Dreadfort. Which means his nastiness and betrayal might still happen, but that Domeric becomes Lord of Winterfell to the relief of Jeyne (unless he already married into the Freys in place of Roose).
As always, I appreciate when the court takes on my Qs. Good to see someone posed my question from ruling 68 to poor Quentyn. Here is another:
ReplyDeleteDo Maesters have to perform a small blood sacrifice when forging their Valyrian steel links?
Will we see another trial by seven in the remaining story? If so what is the most likely scenario that we would see one?
ReplyDeleteWill House Royce support Aegon VI? Will any major Vale or Riverlands Houses go over to his cause?
ReplyDeleteIf Gregor's head really went to Dorne, whose head, if anyone's, do you think is under the Robert Strong helmet? Will it be important to the narrative? Could it be a major character's head (e.g., Tywin, Joffrey, Mandon Moore)? Conversely, if the head that went to Dorne was not Gregor's, whose was it? Just a random enormous guy? Seems like Gregor was uniquely large to the extent that Ned was able to tell who was ravaging the Riverlands sight unseen, as did others.
ReplyDeleteBecause this is a short one: Cersei got a gift with the heads of dwarves who tend to be oversized.
DeleteThanks. I thought of that, but was hoping for something more exciting. Still hard to believe a dwarf would have a head as big as a man suffering from gigantism, but that makes the most sense based on what we know re: the dwarf head shipments.
Delete