Thursday, February 19, 2015

Supreme Court of Westeros, ruling 66

Thursday is court day!
Welcome to the Supreme Court of Westeros! Every week, three pressing questions from the community will be answered by the esteemed judges Stefan (from your very own Nerdstream Era) and Amin (from A Podcast of Ice and Fire). The rules are simple: we take three questions, and one of us writes a measured analysis. The other one writes a shorter opinion, either concurring or dissenting. The catch is that every week a third judge from the fandom will join us and also write a dissenting or concurring opinion. So if you think you're up to the task - write us an email to, leave a comment in the post, ask in the APOIAF-forum or contact Amin at his tumblr. Discussion is by no means limited to the court itself, though - feel free to discuss our rulings in the commentary section and ask your own questions through the channels above.
One word on spoilers: we assume that you read all the books, including the Hedge Knight short stories, and watched the current TV episodes. We don't include the spoiler chapters from various sources in the discussion, with the notable exception of Theon I, which was supposed to be in "A Dance with Dragons" anyway.
Casting Call: We're searching for guest judges again! If you like to participate, even if you have been part of previous rulings, send us an email.
And now, up to ruling 66 of the Supreme Court of Westeros! Our guest judge this week is Javi Marcos, a previous judge of the Supreme Court and one of the admins of, the biggest web about ASOIAF and GoT in Spanish. He had a collaboration in the Special Edition of Tower of the Hand: A Flight for Sorrows.
Would you welcome a trilogy of feature films of Robert's rebellion?

Main Opinion: Stefan
As an ASOIAF fan I’d surely welcome any faithful adaption, but I think it’s not really that desirable an adaption. While I don’t doubt that a skilled writer’s room and a skilled director can make something of the stuff, in the end, it’s a succession of battles by characters that have to be introduced along with the world and that don’t really work on the big screen all that well. But would I watch it? Sure I would. I just don’t see anyone doing it. The stuff is a bit arcane to rely on an expensive IP and hope that “the backstory of that TV series you saw” attracts enough people.

Concurring Opinon: Amin
I agree, I would watch it if it came out, but I’m not particularly excited about the concept. I would prefer a mini-series on Dunk and Egg, once those tales are completed.

Concurring in Part, Dissenting in Part: Javi
Yes, I would. With enough cash for the SFX it would be really spectacular.If HBO casting team is responsible of this casting selection too I'm sure we could get a really good cast. We have a great war (almost of all Westeros was involved), we have a love story with Rhaegar and Lyanna, we have drama, death and heroes. Sounds pretty Hollywoodesque to me. And if the trilogy includes Tourney of Harrenhall would be even better.

Final Verdict: We'd not say no, but prefer other adaptions. 

What’s Tywin’s plan of succession?

Main Opinion: Stefan
That is a very good question, because I’m not sure whether he actually has one. Tywin’s plan is simple in one regard: Tyrion will not inherit, period. He wants Jaime to inherit, but while Robert is king, that’s not going to happen. However, Tywin will most likely expect Robert not to outlast him, and he would think that King Joffrey would be amenable to the idea of releasing Jaime. But even if that doesn’t happen, he doesn’t lack heirs. Kevan has sons, and they have cousins and stuff. Succession is, in the end, not the most pressing issue for Tywin. Someone with Lannister blood will take over, and it will be someone who won’t be ridiculous to look upon. And the Lannister legacy will be saved.

Concurring Opinion: Amin
Tywin thought that Jaime would eventually take over that role. It was only in the last few weeks of his life that he had to seriously consider the problem that Jaime would continue to refuse to follow his duty to his family. If he had survived longer, he would have likely turned to another Lannister family member, whatever it would take to prevent Tyrion from inheriting the Rock.

Concurring in Part, Dissenting in Part: Javi
In my opinion, Tywin is a player that always thinks that he will win. In this case, I'm sure he thought that in some way Jaime would be released of his vows and would get the Rock. How? Well, Cersei was really powerful in King's Landing, Robert did not care about almost anything bar hunting and whoring, so in the future he could be convinced to release Jaime of the Guard, with a Lannister loaning or a legal trick created by Pycelle. Or maybe Tywin thought that he would survive Robert and Joffrey would do it.

Final Verdict: Tywin planned for Jaime, until the end. In the meantime, he had Lannisters in reserve.

Why did Varys insist Tyrion not look at the lowest Red Keep dungeon during escape?

Main Opinion: Stefan
If memory serves, those levels were built by the Maegor the Cruel and have essentially fallen out of use since then. I guess they contain not only torture chambers, but the most vile and brutal of stuff. It might even be that there are rooms for blood magic or something there. I’d expect it to be an environment that gives you nightmares, and it would fit with Vary’s aversion against magic and desire to end the rule of the Targaryen family (the real one). Traumatising stuff for sure.

Concurring in Part, Dissenting in Part: Amin
I agree that the rooms were torture rooms and potentially disturbing. On the other hand, Tyrion has both read and seen a lot and I’m not sure if the mention by Varys was so much for Tyrion’s benefit, than for a chance for George to give the reader more background information on Maegor the Cruel and the dark side of the Targaryens.

Dissenting Opinion: Javi
The key of Tyrion's escape plan was to hit fast and run faster, to not get caught. He had to leave, he had to kill Tywin to create chaos and there shouldn't be a physical culprit to blame and condemn in order to increase Cersei's paranoia. If Tyrion went to take a look to the lowest Red Keep dungeons he could get lost, or simply lose too much time and got caught. And remember, if Tyrion got caught he would say for sure that Varys helped him. And that's not something Varys would want. 

Final Verdict: Either it was just writer's freedom on Martin's part, or Varys didn't want Tyrion to get caught up.


  1. I assume that Varys housed in Little Birds there and did not want Tyrion to see them.

  2. Where can we submit questions?

    1. Mail, tumblr comments, here in the comments, APOIAF forums.

    2. Thanks. I have a couple questions. Can you speak to the significance of the similarity in description of Daenarys drinking the shade of the evening and Bran eating the Jojen paste? Do you think there is a link between the trees surrounding the house of the undying and heart trees?

      My second questions concerns the theory that Maggie the Frog and the Ghost of High Heart are the same person. I found the evidence to support this theory pretty convincing, did you?

  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. Tywin, the Hyman Roth of Westeros.

  5. How would you feel about GOT and Martin as a writer if it turned out that R+L did not equal J?

  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

  7. I would like to pose a question to this distinguished Court.

    What is your opinion regarding the role of Lady Stoneheart in ASOIAF? In which way does it contribute to the overall story? I've always felt that it was something of an outlier that didn't fit well to the general direction of the story. Do you think that could be pointing to some sort of explanation for the origin of the Others?

  8. My fancy for the lowest level of the dungeons constructed by Maegar is that they literally go only one way, like a dark box in which you doom your captives to live in forever without light, human contact, and very little food until you lose your mind. Hence going down to that level would never be a wise thing to do unless you a complicated means of escape.

  9. In which way is winter going to affect the iron islands? Are the others going to march over the iced sea (if this is possible)? Or is the cold doing the job?

    Sry for the bad english.

  10. Do you think the three dragons will remain together for the next two books? Are they destined to fight 'the others' or 'each other'?

  11. Who is the man behind Margery needing moon tea?

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