tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post3657343929589389418..comments2024-03-29T05:15:06.389+01:00Comments on The Nerdstream Era: An analysis of Catelyn StarkStefan Sassehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-24035119961279332662019-01-06T10:47:59.064+01:002019-01-06T10:47:59.064+01:00I'm 100% sure that the person is a troll. The ...I'm 100% sure that the person is a troll. The only other option is that they are an utter imbecile.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05444615317909224658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-5250065732934008242019-01-06T10:41:34.773+01:002019-01-06T10:41:34.773+01:00She never met either Lyanna or Rheagar, and Ned wa...She never met either Lyanna or Rheagar, and Ned was the epitome of an honest man. She never had any reason to doubt his words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-36273778985686578542015-04-09T23:01:00.951+02:002015-04-09T23:01:00.951+02:00nope. Catelyn is a villain at heart and also dumb....nope. Catelyn is a villain at heart and also dumb.<br />She believed she was the smartest, reading her chapters were all about how she's better than everyone else, blaming everyone for every little mistakes they did .<br />And i hate Tyrion and find Jon boring.kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01905147006282427923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-32447811163043619422015-01-12T12:16:47.350+01:002015-01-12T12:16:47.350+01:001) Littlefinger has never slept with Catelyn. That...1) Littlefinger has never slept with Catelyn. That's the first major false assumpation right there. Sansa is therefore not LF's daughter. <br />2) Catelyn also doesn't need to construct any reason for her treatment of Jon Snow, which by the way is a pretty far way off from "mistreatement". <br />3) Yes he has, but neither Catelyn nor any one else can know that. <br />4) Where do you even get these ideas? Catelyn is in paralysis at Bran's bedside because she essentially snaped, and the assassination attempt brings her back to the real world and her responsibilities (Family, Duty, Honor!) which she then resumes. <br />The idea to capture Tyrion Lannister isn't dumb at all. It's actually a pretty good way to discern the truth in Westeros. She couldn't exactly factor in what a bad idea it was to bring him to the Eyrie. <br />And Ned Stark spineless?! The fuck? And again, Jon Snow wasn't mistreated. He has no claim to the Stark name, and Ned never ever intended him to have one. That was Robb's idea, born out of a desperate war situation. And no one doubts that Ned's actions aren't exactly "clever", but they're not as random as you put it. Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-81127885482779955082015-01-12T09:54:21.280+01:002015-01-12T09:54:21.280+01:00Stefan, do you consider that wrong by perspective ...Stefan, do you consider that wrong by perspective or by fact checking the book? Consider that most conflicts, regardless of scale, begin this way...smaller interests that have a ripple effect. Some say that the road to hell is paved with "good intentions". As for Catelyn and Ned, there is no evil master-rminding, but that does not absolve them of their share of responsibility. An accidental or intentional death, in most courts, comes with a penalty/punishment, and depending on the country, the severity may be the same or different. Of course, your opinion is respected. Who knows, maybe the analysis you commented on is all sorts of wrong, but probably not. Martin's main characters seem meant to be flawed yet compelling. It's almost impossible to unequivocally love OR hate one of the characters, if you have the background knowledge and certain life experiences of your own. As with real people, they are all victims and culprits on some level. However, for me, I love to despise certain characters,i.e., Cat, Cercei, Joffrey, and Tywin. Not sure why some people get so protective of the Starks, especially Cat. The Starks aren't perfect, they just do a great job of appearing that way. You know people just like that, I'd bet. And, I'm not really a betting woman. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-86664939161637587332015-01-11T17:34:59.876+01:002015-01-11T17:34:59.876+01:00This is wrong on so many levels I don't even k...This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. Stefan Sassehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03504751435668017553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-30732330237149461402015-01-11T17:14:02.675+01:002015-01-11T17:14:02.675+01:00If you read the books, you may agree that... The c...If you read the books, you may agree that... The character, Catelyn Stark, is actually the vilest of characters. One shouldn't fooled by the motherly guise. She has no honor, because she is a ruthless liar, hypocrite, and fraud who ultimately started the war, which even worse, distracted and weakened the kingdoms from the greater threat beyond The Wall. Of course, Jaime was wrong to try to kill Bran. However, Catelyn is catastrophically selfish, impetuous, self-righteous, non-strategic (tactical only), aristocratic, and devoid of a sense of fairness. A cleverer woman, such as Cercei, would have constructed her justice without upsetting all 7 kingdoms and destroying countless lives. Proof of Concept: (1) Littlefinger, not Ned, was her first. No, she was not a "maiden" when she married. (2) Sansa is Littlefinger's daughter. She was unfaithful to Ned and has a bastard child as well! She manipulated Ned through his guilt of infidelity to allow her mistreatment of Jon Snow, and carried her big secret to the grave, which sets Sansa up for possible incest. Was it so impossible to raise infant John Snow as her own? She hated Jon since a baby and beyond his leaving to become a Crow. Why would she drive him to take an life's oath to joining the Black, especially considering how much she supposedly valued family. Where is Illyn Payne when you need him most?! Theon was treated better, and look how that worked out for the Stark family. (3) Tyrion has more honor in is “half-man” body than most any knight, high born, or ruler in the 7 kingdoms put together. (4) Catelyn is a terrible mother! She destroyed the well-being of all of her children, and countless others for that matter, in an attempt to avenge damage to one of her children, one of her "favorite" children. What she did was not for Bran, it was for her. Remember, she left him before we woke, because she her revenge could wait no longer. Don’t be fooled that it was to further protect Bran. She made it clear that she’d done all she could for him, and the rest was up to the gods. Then she decides to snatch the opportunity to kidnap Tyrion Lannister while her husband and only 2 daughters are in the Lannister's home, and her husband is The Hand of the king? She's an idiot. Personally, I prefer Joffrey to this dummy. At least he could be managed, even if only by his mother. His petulant cruelties were typically focused on one person at a time, and he was largely coached by his mother to ultimately become her savage avenger atop the throne of ultimate power. Catelyn was a catastrophic prima donna, disguised in semi-drab garb, with a spineless and obtuse husband, Ned Stark. Honor schmonor… the dud allowed Jon to be mistreated by his evil stepmother and denied the Stark name; slayed innocent direwolf, Lady, at the king’s command; decapitated the young Crow who'd warned them that winter truly was coming and some leagues just north of them. He decided when he was feeling self-righteous that it was reasonable stand up to Robert Baratheon, the king. He resigned being The King’s Hand to protect a stranger, Danaerys, (who is awesome and has managed to stay alive all this time, anyway, and may become one of the most destructive forces of all...), but wouldn’t preserve his family by declining the position as The Hand in the first place…misplaced loyalty and greater need to do right than to do what is right. Ned and Cat seem good and innocent, but they are 2 of the worst characters, and the underlying causes of the wars. That’s the genius of George R.R. Martin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-90539534198759730592014-10-29T06:03:47.979+01:002014-10-29T06:03:47.979+01:00If by special kind of evil you mean your own perso...If by special kind of evil you mean your own personalized definition that is unabashedly myopic ... but hey maybe some people are proud of that sort of thing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-75853154039070271462014-07-16T03:21:39.078+02:002014-07-16T03:21:39.078+02:00Catelyn is a judgemental, mean-spirited bitter wom...Catelyn is a judgemental, mean-spirited bitter woman. She had no business blaming Jon for his father's supposed infidelity. It is a special kind of evil person that can mistreat a child. Her words to him when he said goodbye to Bran were unjustifiable. My interpretation of the zombie woman she returns as, is that it's the perfect representation of her cold and evil soul.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-82159374932337081562014-06-21T01:09:05.484+02:002014-06-21T01:09:05.484+02:00Worse than Cersei? The person who murdered her chi...Worse than Cersei? The person who murdered her childhood friend at the age of 11, abused Tyrion while he was still in his cradle, had her husband's bastards massacred, had numerous people tortured and experimented on by Qyburn (and the list goes on?) No. Just...no.<br /><br />Catelyn haters are the absolute worst. Yes, she has flaws and has done some stupid shit. Like every other character in the series. Isn't that one of the main reasons people love George's work, and why his characters get so much praise? Because they're realistic, flawed, actual people who largely can't be defined as "good" or "evil"? Yet Cat is demonized by a large section of the fandom while other characters who have done far, FAR worse things get a free pass. I just don't understand it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-10147905339682638632014-06-10T18:49:41.816+02:002014-06-10T18:49:41.816+02:00Well I for instance love Sansa, and I can see from...Well I for instance love Sansa, and I can see from her perspective, while I completly despise Catelyn She's just dumb as f**, never thinks in the reprocursions of her acts and acts like a know-it-all. She's worse then cersei in my books. The capture of tyrion and release of Jaime just came to prove how stupid she is. The way she treats Jon, on the other hand is behond me; she could forgive her husband but not the poor child who had nothing to do with it. I wish she had stayed dead as rock -.-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-6864312941847164332014-06-01T12:23:19.934+02:002014-06-01T12:23:19.934+02:00For me, personally, any time I see the heading &qu...For me, personally, any time I see the heading "Catelyn" I cringe because I know the next section is going to be boring. It's like I have to pay a toll to read these great stories and this toll is having to read through "Catelyn."<br /><br />When I watched the show on TV I was sad they killed her off. Now I will throw myself a little party when that scene happens in the book. <br /><br />No.<br />More. <br />Catelyn. <br /><br />Do a little dance. <br />Make a little love<br />Get down tonight. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-20015316319492360232014-05-23T10:53:59.719+02:002014-05-23T10:53:59.719+02:00Most of your points are valid, although exception ...Most of your points are valid, although exception could be made based on the fact that your defense of Catelyn switches between her strategic expertise and her emotional state of mind. While certainly a deep character portrait painted by GRRM, we are allowed our dislike of her should she show proficiency in one area and deficiency in another. To wit, if her logicality in treating with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton marks her as having a sound strategic mind then why does she make the abysmal decision to release Jaime Lannister. And abysmal it is, from a strategic standpoint, regardless of the nobility of it. <br /><br />Furthermore, I believe we are meant to feel some dislike for Catelyn due to her coldness towards Jon. The rich characters that GRRM are praised for (at least the rich main characters) cannot be universally loved or else they are simply fantasy archetypes. Ned, our paragon of honor, can be disliked for trying to buy the Gold Cloaks, a decidedly dishonorable thing to do. Likewise we can dislike Catelyn for the unfair, although reasonable, coldness towards Jon. <br /><br />I am in total agreement, however, that her citizen's arrest of Tyrion was the best decision she could have made given her limited knowledge. <br /><br />The fandom's dislike, while somewhat rabid, is justified because like all of A Song of Ice and Fire's characters Catelyn is flawed, and we are allowed to dislike a character's flaws. That being said, your deep reading of Catelyn is commendable as with all of the flawed characters in A Song of Ice and Fire understanding their circumstances and motivations flesh them out as people rather than cardboard cutouts and I do believe we aren't truly meant to wholly dislike or like any of the characters. <br /><br />Except the Freys. <br /><br />Fuck those guys. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10399126492306040922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-62243248273063590992014-04-15T18:11:46.848+02:002014-04-15T18:11:46.848+02:00also, just because a female is being blamed doesnt...also, just because a female is being blamed doesnt mean its misogyny. learn what words mean. headrothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08372153092274695643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-39200002815948528702014-04-15T18:10:38.282+02:002014-04-15T18:10:38.282+02:00catelyn is the worst. she makes cheap mistakes tha...catelyn is the worst. she makes cheap mistakes that someone in her position should not be making. she lacks common sense and forethought and her mistakes get MANY people killed and allow situations to spiral out of control. <br /><br />i could really care less about her getting individuals killed. she just seems to be an awful character in terms of her ability to control herself and her situation. especially in comparison to cersei, as a queen or a lady, catelyn is a joke.<br /><br />she trusts all the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, and doesnt do what she needs to do.<br /><br />she also fails at owning up to how grave the consquences are of her poor choices.<br /><br />people hate sansa for the same reasons.<br /><br />they also act like whimpering simpering fools most of the time and are pathetic excuses for ladies, females, or authority figures. headrothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08372153092274695643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-11369352630119506032014-04-13T14:21:03.659+02:002014-04-13T14:21:03.659+02:00How stupid does Catelyn have to be not to recognis...How stupid does Catelyn have to be not to recognise that Jon was Lyanna and Rhaegar's child? Seriously? I'm glad Bran didn't get her stupid genes and his father's fool genes. Instead he is smart and honourable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-41241594583401462112014-02-21T22:31:06.152+01:002014-02-21T22:31:06.152+01:00Furthermore, Catelyn haters talk about her "l...Furthermore, Catelyn haters talk about her "looking down on people of low birth" as if that was a trait only exhibited by Catelyn. It's a feudal society for God's sake! Anyone who is highborn would have looked down on small folk. It doesn't make it right. It's just the harsh reality of that world. To demonize Catelyn for something so inconsequential is ridiculous, especially when we have worse examples of cruelty (see Cersei) and unrestrained arrogance and stupidity (see Lysa). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-63668077256531869502014-02-21T22:24:49.673+01:002014-02-21T22:24:49.673+01:00Completely agree with you 100%!! The way that Cate...Completely agree with you 100%!! The way that Catelyn and Sansa are treated by the fandom is in itself, an example of how difficult and unfair the lives of women were in a patriarchal society. Jaime gets a pass even though he tried to kill an 8 year old boy, but Catelyn gets demonized for things that are largely outside of her control. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-8763174827973733662014-02-21T22:19:48.528+01:002014-02-21T22:19:48.528+01:00Thank you for posting such an intelligent analysis...Thank you for posting such an intelligent analysis about Catelyn's decisions. I will comment about all the various points you raised:<br /><br />1. Catelyn and Jon - You make such excellent points about the nature of Catelyn's relationship with Jon, and the unfair accusations that are levied against Catelyn by the fandom. Catelyn believes Jon to be the result of her husband's infidelity. Although this is not Jon's fault, Catelyn's dislike is perfectly understandable. Considering that Cersei has a vast number of Robert's bastards massacred, I doubt that Catelyn deserves so much contempt simply because she dislike her husband's bastard. <br /><br />2. Tyrion's arrest - If Tyrion wasn't such a popular character, I doubt people would think so negatively of Catelyn for arresting him. She has reasonable evidence to suspect Tyrion and the Lannisters. Just because Tyrion is innocent, it doesn't change the fact that the Lannisters DID try to kill Bran. In addition, the reason why Tyrion's arrest goes so terribly wrong is because Lysa botched everything up. I don't know if Lysa's decisions were caused by her insanity or craftily manipulated by Littlefinger from afar (although, this is pure speculation that has not been confirmed by the text). And I completely agree with you where Tywin is concerned. He's just a cruel, vindictive, power-hungry jackass. . <br /><br />3. Catelyn & Roose - Another ridiculous and unfair accusation. If Roose betrays the Starks, how is this Catelyn's fault? It's such misogyny! Why is it that some fans find it easier to blame a female character, instead of placing the blame where it belongs. Roose betrayed the Starks. Roose IS the sole responsible for his betrayal, not Catelyn, not Robb. Roose!<br /><br />4. Catelyn and Walder Frey - Another unfair accusation. Catelyn made the best possible negotiation given the information she knew. How was she supposed to know that Robb would break the marriage contract? And how is she responsible for Robb's decisions? I don't even think the fans who levy these accusations against her, could have foreseen the aftermath of this negotiation. <br /><br />5. Catelyn & the Baratheons - Really?? This is her fault too? First of all, Catelyn tried to bring the Baratheons into the fold. She tried to bring both Stannis and Renly to reason, and both refused to listen to her. Stannis is most at fault for this, heeding Melisandre's advise, and unleashing that abomination to kill Renly. Once Renly was dead, was there really any chance that the Tyrells would join with the North? Somehow, I doubt it. The Starks goal is to become independent from the Seven Kingdoms. Why would the Tyrells be interested in supporting the North's independence? How would that further their goal to make Margaery queen of Westeros? I doubt Mace Tyrell would have settled for making Margaery the Queen of the North, especially since Robb was already promised to the Freys. Again, I don't see any way that Catelyn could have broker a deal with the Tyrells. Given that context, why should Catelyn sacrifice Brienne when she knows she's innocent of Renly's death?? <br /><br />6. Catelyn and Jaime - This is the only of Catelyn's decisions that I find objectionable. While I agree that the notion that Jaime is "more valuable" than Sansa is extremely sexist, the reality is that Jaime's captivity was the only leverage that the Starks had at the time. Catelyn's decision to release him is very bad judgment. However, I forgive Catelyn for the simple reason that she is grief stricken. Her husband is dead, she believes that Bran and Rickon are dead, Arya is lost and presumed by most to be dead. From Cat's perspective, Robb and Sansa are the only family she has left. I think it's perfectly understandable that in such an emotional fragile state that a mother would do anything to secure the well being of her child. Although I feel like she made the wrong choice by releasing Jaime, I understand her motivations.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-80343893289951298182014-01-14T10:18:28.628+01:002014-01-14T10:18:28.628+01:00I dislike Catelyn. Virtually all of the character...I dislike Catelyn. Virtually all of the characters have faults and shades of grey and many mistreat others, but the problem I have with Cat is that she tries to deal with everyone generally fairly...except Jon. While she had every right to be angry at Ned she chose to take that anger out on Jon. She makes a glaring exception of this innocent, powerless kid and that really rubs me the wrong way. In my book that makes her a bully.redrabbitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-1355182249655792762013-11-21T19:09:39.889+01:002013-11-21T19:09:39.889+01:00It's probably too late to say it, but anyway -...It's probably too late to say it, but anyway - the OP in the link at the start from the Westeros boards is clearly sarcastic.<br /><br />Excellent work anyway, there's way too many really groundless arguments against Catelyn repeated all the time in the fandom. Way too much of the hindsight is 20/20 stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-15618004151391859432013-11-12T03:04:19.373+01:002013-11-12T03:04:19.373+01:00As far as the whole Catelyn mistreating Jon thing ...As far as the whole Catelyn mistreating Jon thing goes, I don't think we can say she for sure mistreated him but we CAN tell that she didn't like him. And an author doesn't always have to TELL you what is happening so much as SHOW you. I am EXTREMELY biased when it comes to this though. My dad had me out of wedlock with another women before he met my stepmom and then when he married he expected her to mother me. That didn't happen. Instead she is constantly cold and distant towards me but doesn't actually ABUSE me which I think is probably the same way Catelyn is towards Jon. And, yes, it does hurt. Like I said though, I have a very biased opinion on her. Although, I will never forgive Catelyn for capturing Tyrion and releasing Jamie. Just stupid mistakes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-11070083321232237042013-07-18T13:01:48.860+02:002013-07-18T13:01:48.860+02:00Thanks for reading and commenting. While I do admi...Thanks for reading and commenting. While I do admit that it is possible Catelyn mistreated Jon, and based on a patchwork narrative across several books there does appear to have been something going on, we have no idea what that was. Perhaps she beat him, perhaps she ignored him, perhaps she kissed Robb and hugged Jon, we simply do not know, and yet, people are acting as if they do. <br /><br />As for Tywin, my point was pretty much: does things that could go bad or good, they go good, SMART! Whereas Catelyn, does things that could go bad or good, they go bad, WITCH! :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17943523322705835814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-19626563525659487282013-07-18T12:54:01.735+02:002013-07-18T12:54:01.735+02:00The thing is, there is scant literally evidence of...The thing is, there is scant literally evidence of mistreatment. Perhaps she did, but perhaps she didn't, neither of us can be sure as of yet, but what we can be sure of is the fact that the two most common literally pieces cites as evidence of mistreatment are not as they might first appear.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17943523322705835814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1758815004886180861.post-85657441432467090572013-07-12T08:09:38.693+02:002013-07-12T08:09:38.693+02:00I've never particularly hated Catelyn. I'v...I've never particularly hated Catelyn. I've never liked her much either however. Personally, I dislike Catelyn because she (like Sansa) is boring to me. She's not unsympathetic, but neither is she particularly sympathetic; her thought processes are not engaging like Tyrion's or Jaime's or Arya's. I understand that this is simply an essay to refute common arguments made against her, but I feel that it requires some tempering.<br /><br />On her treatment of Jon Snow: <br /><br />I'm not sure if anyone argues that she abuses him, but she certainly neglects him and willfully denies him whenever she can. In ASOS she tried her best not to have Jon inherit Winterfell despite the fact that a) she thought that the rest of her children were dead and b) Jon is Eddard's son, and Winterfell ultimately belonged to Eddard Stark. Would those thoughts have been painful? Yes. But it does not make them less true. <br /><br />And as for neglect. Jon's and Benjen's conversation did not have 'Catelyn demanded he be excluded' because they're all rather well cultured people. It did not need to be said explicitly for it to be felt, and Jon is polite enough to have summarized it in a seemingly favorable manner. Remember that in his farewell to Robb he lied about Catelyn's last words to him to spare Robb.<br /><br />Added to that, neglect is no small thing to scoff at, and while I don't think Catelyn was particularly cruel to him, indifference can be harsh too. A child needs love, and yeah, not *really* Catelyn's job, but ignoring it isn't really showing off her great character either. While I can understand her hating the sight of him for the first few years, how can she still persist to hate a child after she's watched him grow up? To me it's comparable to Aunt Petunia from Harry Potter, or the villagers and their 'cold glares' from Naruto if you prefer. Their positions are also understandable but nobody must like them.<br /><br />On Catelyn's capture of Tyrion:<br /><br />I feel like this was her biggest and possibly only mistake in the series. The others I can understand, but this one confounds me. It does not help that this is basically the catalyst for the War of the Five Kings, and I agree that it's this reason that's making it seem worse than it is, but Catelyn is not blameless here. <br /><br />You've explained it quite well, but as you've stated, Catelyn is an intelligent woman. She had to have known what Tywin was. Even if she did not, she could have guessed from what she thought she knew about the murders of Jon Arryn, attempted murder of Bran, etc. 'A Lannister always pays its debts' is pretty much the family motto there and did she think that she could just capture Tyrion and experience no consequences? Certainly she might have felt finding Bran's assassin was worth it, but if the Lannisters were reckless enough to try and murder a Stark, and actually murder the Hand of the King, surely they would be reckless enough to actually make her regret taking Tyrion? <br /><br />Lastly, a little on Tywin - basically he did gamble, but it was a relatively sound gamble. Funnily enough he couldn't have predicted Jaime, but if it were not for him, Tywin would have captured Eddard Stark and been none the worse for wear. If you recall, he was winning in the Riverlands until Robb came marching through. Tywin states that he does not have time to fight the North, but he can deal with the Tulleys well enough. And about making an alliance with the Tulleys - he doesn't need them. He thinks that he's enough to deal with Stannis, so there's no point in allying with Riverrun. And Robb's terms of peace were never acceptable because the North is about the size of the other six kingdoms combined, and giving up half your kingdom at the start of a new reign is never a good thing.<br /><br />So final word is, you've explained Catelyn's actions rather well, but not well enough to arose my sympathies. Thank you for trying however.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com